Trapped In A Mormon Gulag (UT, West Ridge Academy)

This story is about my personal experiences at a place called The Utah Boys Ranch, which models itself as a "tough-love" prep-school, but while I was there, I witnessed some unbelievable atrocities. It is a Mormon-funded and staffed facility, and religious indoctrination is a fundamental aspect of the school. There was sexual, physical, and emotional abuse, suicide, staff corruption, and escape. A major Utah political figure, Senator Chris Buttars was the executive director while I was there. This is my true story. Warning: Story contains adult content. His filthy digit tasted like rust and fish. "I can hurt you without leaving any marks," Brent growled as I writhed in agony on the ground. I struggled for breath as he mounted my back, put his finger in my mouth, and pulled back on my cheek, fish-hooking me. The pain was incredible. I tried to beg him to stop, but the words would not come.
After he finished beating and bludgeoning submissiveness into me, he pulled me up by the rope that was lassoed around my waist. The wool army blanket I had fashioned as a skirt had shifted askew and I stood there in my boxers bleeding from my nose, humiliated.

My green Utah Boys Ranch t-shirt had been ridiculously stretched out and looked more like a low cut blouse. I loosened the noose around my waist and pulled the itchy blanket through the loop and folded it over so it looked like a brown bath towel secured by a belt. He wasn't satisfied, he wanted more. I just wanted out of this classroom. I started to think about how I got here.

The Utah Boys Ranch appears to be a kind of tough-love school with a Christian-esque undertow. My parents thought as much when they employed its services in hopes of corralling their spiritually wayward son.

Being kidnapped was probably the last thing I was worried about at 15 years old. I was staying at my grandma's house that fateful night. My step-dad and I had been at war since I had refused to go to seminary, a church service for Mormon kids in high school that began at the ungodly hour of six in the morning.

I loathed early morning seminary more than the three hours of my Sunday regular LDS church service consumed, or the three hours on Wednesday nights. My opposition, paired with my step-dad's religious fanaticism, resulted in being grounded almost to the point of indentured servitude. Grandma's house was my sanctuary. Ironically, when I looked up at the clock that next morning - as two imposing silhouettes entered the house my mom grew up in - it was five minutes to 6 a.m. on Valentine's Day.

I was camped out on the sofa bed in the TV room with a plate of leftover lasagna from the fridge. It was half eaten and a Roseanne re-run was playing when they first walked in. They looked around as if they had been told where to go, but hadn't quite envisioned it right. They looked to their left, saw the terrified eyes of a 15-year-old, and pounced. They shoved clothes and shoes on me and I was gone before I was able to think about which way I should run. They told me very little. Their first names were Paul and Barry.

Barry was a white guy, a big mother. At least 6'5", and I would not be surprised to hear that he weighed more than 300 pounds, but he was not fat. Paul was shorter and had a darker complexion. He was big too, and meaner than Barry. He turned to me when we first got into their white mid-sized rental car and said, "You have a choice. You can be cool and get on an airplane with us and be there in a couple of hours, or you can sit back there with handcuffs on for the next 12 hours. Non-stop."

"Where are we going," I asked, still in shock.

"Utah," Barry answered casually from the passenger seat, without turning his head. "We are from the Utah Boys Ranch, Eric, and your parents have asked us to take you back with us."

"What?" My head was spinning. I felt like I was going to throw up. There is no way that this was happening. My mom would never allow this. Utah? What the hell is a Boys Ranch? I couldn't breathe.

"I guess we're driving," Paul said odiously.

I knew the child-lock would be on and as I saw the familiar houses of my grandmother's street pass by, I started to roll down the window. We weren't going fast enough for them to notice yet and the warm Agoura Hills climate didn't tip them off. I rolled it down enough to fit my arm out and open the door from the outside when Paul paused at the stop sign at the bottom of the hill, looked back at me, and stopped the car.

He shoved the gear into park and pulled handcuffs out of somewhere and told me to give him my wrists. I sat there cuffed for a moment when I realized that I really would die from this feeling in my chest - a physical manifestation of angst. My heart was beating furiously, and I knew that I couldn't last 12 hours.

"You can take me on a plane. I'll be cool."

"Now that's more like it," Barry said kindly. "My wife will be happy."

The first person I met in Utah was Senator Chris Buttars. I had no idea who he was until that point. All I knew was that he was to be feared, and I was scared to death of him from the moment I first saw him.

"Sit down," he squawked in a loud, high pitched, galling voice that sounded like a cross between a buzzard and an old cowboy. He continued to make it very clear that I was at his mercy. He told me who he was - politically - and the influence he had. If I ever wanted to leave I was to do what he said. "How old are you?"

"Fifteen," I mumbled.

"Three years might not be enough for you. I can have a judge order you to be here until you are 21," he croaked. With that he sent me off to be "changed and put on work crew."

I was led down a long hall of doors with nameplates. I had no clue what kind of place this was. I didn't see any cows or horses...no sign of what I thought a "ranch" would resemble. Paul took me into a small room that was no bigger than a broom closet, which was stacked to the ceiling with three colors of cloth, blue, green and brown. There were green t-shirts, blue t-shirts, and blue jeans.

There were also brown army wool blankets, and I remember thinking that I didn't want to sleep under such a coarse covering before I was told to "put it on." I was told to wrap a thick, itchy blanket around my waist like a towel and wear it like a dress.

I was then given a "leash" made of climbing rope and what I think was a square knot to tie around my waist. I had never imagined being tethered and walked like a dog, but here I was, being walked like a dog towards a cluster of about 12 other boys. They were lined up facing a wall while two large men in red sweatshirts watched them from a couple of chairs off to the side.

Some of the boys had camouflage pants on, a few others wore dresses. I wondered how long I was to be in this blanket dress. I was later told that it was so I wouldn't run away - and they were right - I literally could not run in this humiliating getup. I could barely get a full stride walking.

That's when I saw Brent - or 'Captain America,' as he was called disparagingly - for the first time. My leash was handed off to him, but he told me to wrap it around my waist and go join the group of young men who were standing with their noses touching the wall, all spread out about arms length from each other.

I turned to the boy who was standing to my right and asked him how long he had been here, but before I could get my question all the way out, my forehead careened into the carpeted wall in front of me. A sharp pain stabbed the back of my head, and suddenly bad breath filled my nostrils. "Are you talking on my work crew, boy?" a red-shirted man screamed at me.

My head was ringing. I was still trying to piece together what had just happened when I looked behind me and massaged the pain in my head. Suddenly my legs fell out from underneath me and I was on my back. He had just slammed my forehead into the wall, and now he had put his foot behind mine and pushed me, sending me to the floor flat on my back.

He stood over me and bawled, "Don't look at me. Don't look around. Don't you MOVE without permission! You don't do anything without permission! If you talk, I think you are talking about running away, and I will restrain you. Do you understand?" I nodded. I knew then that I had to get out of this place. I wasn't going to last here.

It was only my second week on work crew when Neil Westwood refused to turn his back to Brent and place his nose on the wall, which is what the command "face the wall" plainly meant. It was a Mexican standoff for a few moments. Stunningly it seemed like Brent was going to let Neil get his way. I had never seen an older boy in a pissing contest with a staff member before. The younger kids refused commands, but they were always quickly thumped into docility.

Neil was a big kid, a lot bigger than me - probably 230 pounds or so, and over six-feet tall, but dispelled any image of toughness with his glasses, disproportionately small arms, and frizzy hairdo. Neil was as obnoxious as he was an easy target, but I still can't believe that no one reacted when Brent stood up in a flash of rage and chucked a full, unopened gallon of milk at Neil's face from about five feet away, crumbling him to a pitiful puddle of tears, blood, and non-fat milk.

The work crew was depraved. When they didn't have us facing the wall for hours at a time we were digging ditches with spoons, only to fill them back in again. We made huge piles of heavy rocks taken from the field, the field that both surrounded and contained us, only to be told to move the massive mound to another location. They worked us in ways redolent of Stalin's gulags.

There was an agonizing week of all-day sod laying - with bits of mud and grass sticking to the inside of my wool dress - in preparation for some ceremony the work crew boys weren't privy to. The Scarecrow Festival was even worse. We worked for weeks from eight in the morning till eight at night in preparation and to take down that contrived fall carnival/ fundraiser. Boys wished for death. There was also a dry-cleaning service that they operated somewhere in town, which was supposedly much better than any job on campus - even kitchen duty.

Getting off from work crew meant school during the day, and considerably less work. Some sadist there created a t-shirt caste system that involved wearing either a blue t-shirt or green t-shirt. "Blue shirts" could talk, receive letters (which were opened and read first), talk to their parents, and possibly go off campus.

"Green shirts" were allowed into school, but that was about it. No speaking, sitting, or anything but working or reading LDS literature. A "green shirt" was forced to read the Book of Mormon, in particular the first 22 chapters. We were interviewed by one of the four full-time Mormon missionaries that worked there and had to paraphrase all of "First Nephi" before receiving a blue t-shirt. What good derives from reading the Book of Mormon under duress is anyone's guess, but I did it. I had to. I had to go to church and seminary too.

It turns out that any form of decadence - smoking a little grass, telling your math teacher to sit on it, being gay or bi-curious, sexually assaulting a family member or young girl - is curable by a little hard work, tough love, and Mormon doctrine. Boys with "sexual issues" are housed together in what could only be some cruel showing of satire.

They were constantly being caught jerking each other off onto each other, or, more tragically, assaulting younger boys. Whatever it was, they would be shoved into blankets and thrown on work crew. On Tuesday night they would meet with all the boys with sexual issues and provide remedies like IcyHot [1] on the penis to stifle homosexual urges.

I was kept there until they couldn't keep me any longer, and on my 18th birthday I walked out the front doors into a cold October morning with nowhere to go and nothing but my freedom. If I didn't experience it myself I would not believe a place like this exists. A Mormon gulag.

How do they get away with all of the abuse? The forced religion, the stifling of freedom of speech? Was it legal to prevent us from reporting abuse to authorities, or to restrain us with ropes, wool blankets, and duct tape? Is it legal to force young boys to talk about masturbation with Mormon clergy and missionaries? How does all of this go unnoticed? We were young and naive and didn't know that most of what they did to us was illegal. Buttars was famous for telling us that we had only three rights: food, safety, and shelter. They failed to even live up to those standards.

Besides being callow, we hardly had the chance to report any abuse. They instruct parents to ignore any claims of abuse from their children. They call any complaints from children a manipulation tool - "fear factor" - and instruct parents to be wary of the "tactic" they say they encounter most.

There were also no phones to call the police. No nurses or medical examiners to talk to. No government authorities to check in on us. Incongruously, this Orwellian facility desperately needs government oversight.

Sen. Buttars said it all when he told a reporter, "What sets us apart is that we're the only residential treatment facility that doesn't seek or accept government funding. If we did, they'd control us."

http://orato.com/lifestyles/2009/01/02/trapped-mormon-gulag

Comments

Re: Trapped In A Mormon Gulag

By Amanda, January 6, 2009 at 11:17

I looked at all the information, and not just what was presented here. I would like to point out a few things you seem to have missed KP. Also, personal attacks on me do not invalidate my statements. This is neither a knee jerk reaction, nor a defense of my faith. This is a statement of the information that I have found on this subject. Also LOL @ me and the other person being the same poster.

From the Website of the boys who wrote this story
"Furthermore, we have no reason to believe that the Mormon leaders have any knowledge of the abusive, unethical, and illegal operations of the Utah Boys Ranch. Actually, we believe the opposite."

Prominent LDS Families are not the same thing as the LDS Church.
I know some prominent LDS Families that I would never trust my dog to let alone my kids. They are JUST MEMBERS they are not in leadership of the church.

2ndly Politicians also are not the same thing as the LDS Church the also are JUST MEMBERS
The Board is currently made up of
1 Former Legislator
1 Teacher of religion (not the director of religion) from BYU
The LDS Prophet, nor any of the 12 apostles, nor any of the 70's, nor any other Leader of my church is on that Board, nor involved in the running of the ranch afaik.
All I can find on the funding of the Ranch is that it is funded from private donations, and insurance payments, and parental tuition, and that Deseret Industries gives them some food and supplies not money.

The very boys-men who are talking about abuses believe that the leadership of the LDS Church have no knowledge of what is going on. They seem to state over and over that this is the work of a few really bad people. As for having a LDS Branch (congregation) EVERY place where there is even 1 LDS person there is a congregation with a Bishop (branch president) and missionaries, and any other church program that is wanted-needed. There are such congregations in every prision in the world that allows it and has LDS memebers incarcerated.
Church doctrine and the Bishop's Handbook of instructions (which can be found on Wikileaks) all state that abuse should be reported. And the LDS Church has set up a 24hr help line to help the local leaders know what to do about it, and that all abuse is to be reported to a Stake President (higher up leader)
All leaked internal church documents support this statement.

Like I said I would LOVE to see a FULL investigation to find the facts from the fiction.
The LDS Church does not condone abuse. It does happen in the LDS church though (as much as i wish it didn't)
If the what these people say is true then the place should be shut down!

the Source documents I got this information from are located below. I recommend that people inform themselves and make up their own mind.
http://www.mormongulag.com/
http://westridgeacademy.com/Index.html
http://wikileaks.org/leak/mormon-han...tions-1999.pdf

Re: Trapped In A Mormon Gulag

By HiJolly, January 6, 2009 at 09:32

KP: Actually, saying that the LDS church does not own and operate the Utah Boys Ranch IS misleading.
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It is factual to say that the LDS Church does not own and/or operate the UBR/West Ridge Academy. It is not in any way misleading. Rather, it is you who is misleading the reading public.

KP: If you took some time to research this issue, you would find that the connection is both undeniable and more than just incidental:
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There is indeed an undeniable 'connection' -- over 95% of the UBR employees are LDS members. That's it. And ZERO UBR employees are LDS Church employees. Not one.

KP: the board of directors is comprised of prominent LDS families - two Utah Mormon politicians, and the director of religion at BYU, for crying out loud!
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Yes. It is amazing that they have not taken a more active role to discover the atrocities that you have described. Perhaps someone can point them to this article? Your difficulty in communicating honestly, precisely and in a balanced way on what transpired probably means they'll never take you seriously, unfortunately.

KP: There are LDS employees on campus, so what do you call that? Four missionaries, two seminary teachers, a bishopric?
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What employees are on campus? Name one. missionaries are not living on campus. Missionaries are not paid by the Church. Seminary teachers ARE paid by the Church, and ARE Church employees. Are they on campus? They put in maybe 6 hours a day, tops, at their work. Are you saying that they are a part of the UBR? Did you object to any of their behaviors? You left them ENTIRELY out of your article. Why is that? A bishopric is a volunteer group and none of them are paid by the Church. Are they on the campus?

KP: The LDS church is the biggest financier of this establishment. 100% of the staff is LDS.
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The first statement is absolutely false and untrue. It costs an arm & a leg to get your kid in there, and I'm talking money that the PARENTS pay. The DI (owned by the LDS Church) donates stuff like furniture and clothing to the UBR, but that's hardly 'financing'. One would think if you were going to make such an accusation, you'd have something to back it up. But you don't, not even on your website. Nothing at all. If you have the information, I'd think you'd share it. And are you sure about the 100% LDS staff figure?

KP: All this, and more information is readily available at the website mormongulag.com
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Not nearly good enough to get people to believe your biased and one-sided account.
I have been to the Ranch several times, mostly to visit my nephew that worked there for about 6 months in 2007. He's a great guy who as a youth was involved in gangs. He's straightened himself out now, has a wife and kid, and is in college headed for a career in law enforcement. An awesome man.

I know a kid in my neighborhood who was there at the UBR in the early 2000's. He had pulled a knife on a scout leader, plus lots of other crap. He spent a year there, I think, and it really turned him around. He is a great young man today. I took him to a Father-and-Son's outing after he got out of UBR, and he was very well behaved. Even thanked me (in a very heart-touching way) for trusting him enough to go with me and my boys to the campout.

I think there is more than one side to this story, KP.

Re: Trapped In A Mormon Gulag

By KP, January 6, 2009 at 10:53

Amanda/HiJolly wrote: "It is factual to say that the LDS Church does not own and/or operate the UBR/West Ridge Academy. It is not in any way misleading. Rather, it is you who is misleading the reading public."

"Factual?" Hardly.

Equivocating over semantics isn't going to change the simple fact that this is a Mormon facility, and everyone in the know knows it.

Listen, I understand the knee-jerk reaction, but you should really be talking to your church leaders about this if you don't like the association. I don't like it either.
The simple fact is that this IS a Mormon facility and if you want to argue about who is named on the property's deed, well feel free. Let's take a look at who is misleading the reading public.

Amanda/HiJolly wrote: "There is indeed an undeniable 'connection' -- over 95% of the UBR employees are LDS members. That's it. And ZERO UBR employees are LDS Church employees. Not one."

I suppose I could rest my case. Are seminary teachers not LDS Church employees? Aren't they employed by CES? Right, I thought so. Just because missionaries work without salary does not mean they aren't sanctioned by the LDS Church. Are you kidding me? So correcting your statement would be the intellectually honest thing to do - AT LEAST SIX employees of the UBR are officially employed by the LDS Church. That much is fact. Four full-time missionaries, two seminary teachers (maybe more now). And another correction you ought to make: 100% of the staff there are LDS.

Amanda/HiJolly:
"Yes. It is amazing that they have not taken a more active role to discover the atrocities that you have described. Perhaps someone can point them to this article? Your difficulty in communicating honestly, precisely and in a balanced way on what transpired probably means they'll never take you seriously, unfortunately."

Amanda/HiJolly:
"What employees are on campus? Name one."

I named SIX. Not including the Bishopric assigned to the Utah Boys Ranch. Seriously, why go to such lengths to deny such simple facts.

Amanda/HiJolly:
"[M]issionaries are not living on campus. Missionaries are not paid by the Church."

Are you serious? Do you see where this is going, folks? Missionaries are not paid by the Church, so they must not be Mormon. Wow. Cognitive dissonance at its best.

Amanda/HiJolly:
"Seminary teachers ARE paid by the Church, and ARE Church employees. Are they on campus? They put in maybe 6 hours a day, tops, at their work."

Yes, they are on campus. Shouldn't you know these things before laying your reputation (maybe not) on the line in a die-hard defense of institutionalized child abuse?

Amanda/HiJolly:
"Are you saying that they are a part of the UBR?"

Yes, I am saying that. Shouldn't you know this?

Amanda/HiJolly:
"Did you object to any of their behaviors? You left them ENTIRELY out of your article."

Amanda/HiJolly:
"A bishopric is a volunteer group and none of them are paid by the Church."

Amanda/HiJolly:
"Are they on the campus?"

Yes. Wouldn't someone with your familiarity with the Utah Boys Ranch know that?

Amanda/HiJolly:
"It costs an arm & a leg to get your kid in there, and I'm talking money that the PARENTS pay. The DI (owned by the LDS Church) donates stuff like furniture and clothing to the UBR, but that's hardly 'financing'."

Amanda/HiJolly:
"One would think if you were going to make such an accusation, you'd have something to back it up. But you don't, not even on your website.

If I were you, I would peruse the testimonials at www.mormongulag.com and perhaps contact the author of this article to discuss his motivations for writing it. Before you come out swinging and making false statements that damage your credibility, equivocating and tipping your cards so that all the readers can see you have a vested interest in defending your faith and not what is right.

Exaggerations and hyperbole

By HiJolly, January 6, 2009 at 14:09

KP: Amanda/HiJolly wrote: "It is factual to say that the LDS Church does not own and/or operate the UBR/West Ridge Academy. It is not in any way misleading. Rather, it is you who is misleading the reading public."

"Factual?" Hardly.

Equivocating over semantics isn't going to change the simple fact that this is a Mormon facility, and everyone in the know knows it.
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Semantics become exceptionally important, when seeking to reach mutual understanding. When you say "Mormon facility", you mean (because you've already stated it in previous posts) that it is financed by the Church. That is false, is a lie, is untrue, and you have not provided one idota of evidence to support the ludicrous claim. You cannot, because it is NOT TRUE. Instead, you attempt a logical fallacy in stating that since the people involved are LDS, therefore the INSTITUTION of the Church is responsible. This is ridiculous and untrue.

KP: Listen, I understand the knee-jerk reaction, but you should really be talking to your church leaders about this if you don't like the association. I don't like it either.

The simple fact is that this IS a Mormon facility and if you want to argue about who is named on the property's deed, well feel free. Let's take a look at who is misleading the reading public.
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So. Who is on the property's deed? You brought it up. Better provide evidence, though. Your credibility is shot all to heck, already.

KP: Amanda/HiJolly wrote: "There is indeed an undeniable 'connection' -- over 95% of the UBR employees are LDS members. That's it. And ZERO UBR employees are LDS Church employees. Not one."

Missionaries are not employed by ANYONE, period. Yet you claim they are. FALSE. It's a lie. A stupid lie, at that. *I* should be resting *my* case. (sigh) And then to pile on the BS with the claim of FOUR Full time missionaries there at the Ranch. You mean dedicated? LoL. I guess you've got nothing left to lose, so you may as well claim they are all ritually sacrificing 'bad boys' lives to the full moon whilst you're at it. Watch out for dem scary, scary Marmins!! ROFL.

And while CES employees are indeed employed by the Church (which I mentioned before) you have not demonstrated nor provided evidence that they are employed by the UBR. If they are paid by the Church, then they are not paid by the UBR. And vise versa. That's SOP in the CES, and you have not shown any evidence to support your claims. Feel free, KP. And again, you ASSERT that 100% of the staff are LDS. Maybe. But why do you believe that to be true? Demonstrate the truth of it, if you will. You made the claim. *I* guessed at "over 95%" to be safe. Guess you don't care about 'safe'. All I asked for was some evidence to support your 100% claim. (*crickets chirping*)

KP: Amanda/HiJolly:
"Yes. It is amazing that they have not taken a more active role to discover the atrocities that you have described. Perhaps someone can point them to this article? Your difficulty in communicating honestly, precisely and in a balanced way on what transpired probably means they'll never take you seriously, unfortunately."

First of all, I think you are confusing me with the author of this article. Second of all, I noticed you have registered twice on this website simply to post comments on this article. You seem to be the one worried about not being taken seriously, or someone taking Eric seriously.
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I did assume you were the same person. My bad. I least I can admit my mistakes... How do I see the 'double' registration? Curious.

And I'm not Amanda, I'm a guy. And I live in West Jordan, and I didn't vote for Mr. Buttars, either. You are stereo-typing me and aren't even careful enough to avoid the false accusation that I and Amanda are the same person. The Site administrators know. But you don't. LoL. I only got one email confirming my registration, fwiw. (shrugs)

I am sure that Eric had a terrible experience. And I'm saddened that it went so poorly for him. But all this business about the Church being responsible is just so much hooey that I couldn't just leave. Yup, I felt I had to speak up and call you on the BS. And the way you got personal on Amanda (whomever she is) didn't leave me any warm fuzzies, either.

KP: Amanda/HiJolly:
"What employees are on campus? Name one."

I named SIX. Not including the Bishopric assigned to the Utah Boys Ranch. Seriously, why go to such lengths to deny such simple facts.
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Semantics, again. You didn't name any. See, they are important. AND AGAIN, the Bishopric are NOT employees of the Church! Sheesh.

KP: Amanda/HiJolly:
"[M]issionaries are not living on campus. Missionaries are not paid by the Church."

Are you serious? Do you see where this is going, folks? Missionaries are not paid by the Church, so they must not be Mormon. Wow. Cognitive dissonance at its best.
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Ahhhahhhaahahaha! "cog dis"!!!! Oh, you are fun. Of course the missionaries are Mormon. YOU claimed they were paid employees. That's false. Double sheesh.

KP: Amanda/HiJolly:
"Seminary teachers ARE paid by the Church, and ARE Church employees. Are they on campus? They put in maybe 6 hours a day, tops, at their work."

Yes, they are on campus. Shouldn't you know these things before laying your reputation (maybe not) on the line in a die-hard defense of institutionalized child abuse?
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ROFL. You are funny. "die-hard defense of institutionalized child abuse"? Well, I suppose I can see how this makes sense from your claims made previously, but unfortunately you are incorrect on so much that, taken all together, it's just ridiculous. I would not defend child abuse, KP. You seem to want the reading public to believe that I eat children for dessert. R-i-g-h-t------

KP: Amanda/HiJolly:
"Are you saying that they are a part of the UBR?"

Yes, I am saying that. Shouldn't you know this?
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Please explain how they are a part. Do they live there? Who pays them? Please, inquiring minds want to know.

KP: Amanda/HiJolly:
"Did you object to any of their behaviors? You left them ENTIRELY out of your article."

Again, I think you are confusing me with the author of the article. I am not. But I see you are doing what is called "shifting the goal posts" - an apologetic tactic - from your rather steadfast "there are ZERO church employees" to "did you object to any of their behaviors?" Will you finally concede that the Church is involved with this place?
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Well ok, glad to know you're not the author. I'll keep that in mind, as long as you keep in mind I'm not "shifting the goal posts" or whatever. So did you spend time there at the Ranch? Or have I been there more than you have? The seminary teachers are NOT employees of the Ranch. You should know that, yet you seem not to. That's bogus, KP.

Your original claim was NOT that the Church was merely involved, but that it paid employees of the Ranch, and financed the Ranch. Both those claims are FALSE.

kP: Amanda/HiJolly:
"A bishopric is a volunteer group and none of them are paid by the Church."

Are you really going to try and say that a MORMON bishopric is not a Church entity? Are you really willing to carry your sophistry that far? Because we both know that would be nothing less than a lie.
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Again, what we have here is the pot calling the kettle 'black'. You are the one changing the claims, here. You didn't claim that the bishopric was a Church entity (which is true enough), you claimed it was paid for or financed by the Church. This is not true. Anyone who knows anything about Mormons knows that the Bishop and his councelors are not paid by the Church. Nice jab on the "sophistry" thing. I love you, too. :-)

KP: Amanda/HiJolly:
"Are they on the campus?"

Yes. Wouldn't someone with your familiarity with the Utah Boys Ranch know that?
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Just visited a few times, KP, didn't get the chance to live there. How is it that you know so much that ain't so?

KP: Amanda/HiJolly:
"It costs an arm & a leg to get your kid in there, and I'm talking money that the PARENTS pay. The DI (owned by the LDS Church) donates stuff like furniture and clothing to the UBR, but that's hardly 'financing'."

Again, clearly, you don't know what you are talking about. The LDS Church pays for the families can't afford the tuition from the "Fast Offerings" fund. Not all of the parents can afford the three thousand dollar monthly tuition. The LDS Church - via Deseret Industries - contributes more than just clothing and furniture, it supplies the facility with its food. Consider what a massive undertaking feeding that many kids is.
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It is possible that the Church might help out parents in the way you suggest, but I have no evidence that any such thing has occurred. Do you? You *claim* that the Church finances UBR. But still, no evidence. And no retraction.

http://www.providentliving.org/channel/0,11677,2022-1,00.html I wasn't aware that the DI dealt in food. I have been there hundreds of times, both as a customer and a volunteer, and never saw any food there. Please tell me more. Really.

KP: Amanda/HiJolly:
"One would think if you were going to make such an accusation, you'd have something to back it up. But you don't, not even on your website.

I am not the author of the article, but I am certain that I can substantiate any claim that I have made about the Utah Boys Ranch. But you seem dead-set on defending this place, which frankly I find rather disturbing. You seem willing to be misleading in discussing the basic LDS connection with this place, so what other truths are you willing to bend in what you consider defending your faith?
----
You claimed the LDS church supported, even financed the UBR. You are wrong. That is THE reason I registered and commented. Period. I had no comment about the article, it was clearly a distressing experience for the author and was written from that point of view. OK. Your attack of Amanda, though, using false accusations of the LDS Church, yeah, that was worthy of my comment. So I did. Your lies should not go unchallenged, and though Amanda is clearly doing just fine in her own defense, nevertheless I didn't care for your misrepresentations and lies.

My understanding is that most of the funds for the Ranch, if not all, come from private sources. My faith is not in the Boy's Ranch. It is in Jesus Christ, and also to a great extent in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. You threaten nothing but the gullibility of the public.

KP: If I were you, I would peruse the testimonials at www.mormongulag.com and perhaps contact the author of this article to discuss his motivations for writing it. Before you come out swinging and making false statements that damage your credibility, equivocating and tipping your cards so that all the readers can see you have a vested interest in defending your faith and not what is right.
-----
My faith is just fine, thank you very much. I read the entire site and it was sadly lacking in substance. I don't doubt that regrettable things have happened at the Ranch. Let me share some thoughts with you that were recently posted in the West Jordan Yahoo site, RE: this Orato article:

-----
I've been to the boy's ranch several times and talked with a lot of people
who work there regularly. I can say I trust Eric Norwood's perspective
about as far as I can throw him. He appears to be a very disturbed and
bitter [man].

If there really was anything illegal going on, by definition the authorities
have legal authority to intervene and stop it. More likely than not is that
his claims of impropriety could not be substantiated if it was attempted.

R S.
-----
I must comment regarding Trapped In A Mormon Gulag by Eric Norwood. My son was a resident at the Utah Boys Ranch when Eric was there. My husband and I know Eric, as well as some of the boys and staff he mentions throughout the article. Most of the information contained in that article is exaggerated information or fabricated. For example, he mentions dealings with several boys who WEREN'T there when he was in treatment. Other examples of fabrication include "digging ditches with spoons", using "IcyHot on their genitals to curb homosexual tendencies", "suicides", and the list goes on, but what sticks out in my mind is what are Eric's motivations?

I also question who was the actual writer of this article. It is highly unlikely he wrote the article. Is there a movie in the making? Again, what are Eric's motivations? We volunteered for six years at the Boys Ranch, and we were involved with several of their programs, and that kind of treatment did not happen. My husband did a ten-week internship there for his Bachelor's and did not witness what Eric talks about. So please don't take one disgruntled boy's view, who has been out of the program for more than six or seven years, with much weight. Thank you.

R. D.
-----
I agree with [R.D.].

I have been out to the boys ranch (official name: West Ridge Academy) many
times. I've met and talked with Buttars about the ranch. I did so before he
was elected years ago. I've spoken with at least one young man who was out
at the Utah Boys Ranch for a while--and his parents. I've spoken with
volunteers and clergy about their experiences at and with the ranch--and
specifically with Buttars.

In all of that talking for years, since before Buttars was ever a Utah
Senator until today, the worst anyone ever said of Buttars was a young man
who said, "He's okay, but he yells a lot." This comment was made outside the
ranch, and the youth was at complete liberty to say whatever he wanted to. I
was the only one within earshot. I was looking for negatives about Buttars
because I didn't want surprises if I was going to support his candidacy.

The author, presumably Eric Norwood, clearly wants to discredit Buttars.
Unfortunately, he's got several incorrect bits of information.

1) The ranch is funded by private donations--not solely by the LDS Church. I
do not have information on how much the LDS Church financially donates--if
anything. However, I do know that several banks and businesses are regularly
solicited due to Buttars connections. Families are required provide a large
chunk of the funding for their own child. That's spelled out in the
admission forms that parents sign. (Norwood, of course wouldn't have been
privy to how the ranch was funded--so I won't call him a liar, just
uninformed.)

2) The LDS Church supplies volunteers to serve as leaders and missionaries
at the request of the ranch administration. The BSA also supplies volunteers
(and one requisite professional scouter at the council level).

3) Norwood has some credibility issues in his tale... I'll not enumerate all
of them at this time... but will refer the reader to:
http://www.utahboysranch.org/Admissions/Admissions.html admission criteria
http://www.utahboysranch.org/Downloads/Admissions/Admissions%20Packet.pd...
Note the financial portions

D. F.
-----

Maybe D. F. needs to talk with you, hey?

HiJolly

This isn't a Mormon Apologetic Forum...

By KP, January 6, 2009 at 16:54

HiJolly, or whoever you are, might I suggest a website likewww.mormonapologetics.org or www.mormondiscussions.com if you are seeking spirited debate. You have exhausted thousands of words in your posts, and what is your point exactly? That the Mormon Church has nothing to do with this facility? Something, but not much? That the author is an evil anti-Mormon liar? That anyone who doubts the sanctity of West Ridge Academy is a liar? Please, what is your point, exactly? I've given you two comments to get there, and you can't seem to do it. So let's have it please.

"When you say "Mormon facility", you mean (because you've already stated it in previous posts) that it is financed by the Church. That is false, is a lie, is untrue, and you have not provided one idota of evidence to support the ludicrous claim. You cannot, because it is NOT TRUE. Instead, you attempt a logical fallacy in stating that since the people involved are LDS, therefore the INSTITUTION of the Church is responsible. This is ridiculous and untrue."

Several things are ridiculous, stating that this is a Mormon facility is not one of them. What is ridiculous is for you to tell me what I "mean" when I say something so that you can attack that. Do you know what that is called, student? A "straw man" argument, a logical fallacy. I never said that the Utah Boys Ranch was financed by the Church entirely but in order for you to argue against that you decide to tell me that that is what I meant. Sorry, but that is ridiculous and I'm not going to waste my time entertaining your attempt at amateur apologetics.

Do you really expect me to waste as much time as you have responding to arguments about statements I never made, like this real whopper of a lie:

"Missionaries are not employed by ANYONE, period. Yet you claim they are. FALSE. It's a lie. A stupid lie, at that."

What you should be saying, in fact, is that you were mistaken to have assumed this, or you are intentionally misrepresenting what I said. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are mistaken.

I have never seen anyone claim, let alone myself, that missionaries are paid. This is why I won't continue to entertain your baloney, only to comment that I was at the Utah Boys Ranch - for 7 months - and I strongly support the websitewww.mormongulag.com and the author of this article.
I am not here to argue with disgruntled amateur apologists who can't seem to honestly restate and respond to anything I've said.

"And while CES employees are indeed employed by the Church (which I mentioned before) you have not demonstrated nor provided evidence that they are employed by the UBR."

LOL!!!!

I said: I named SIX. Not including the Bishopric assigned to the Utah Boys Ranch. Seriously, why go to such lengths to deny such simple facts.

"Again. LOL!!! What, you want their full names? LOL! Why would I do that? How would you even verify they are there. How about this, you call the Utah Boys Ranch and ASK them if there are any missionaries you can speak with. I'm not going to disclose the names of anyone that was there while I was there."

I do suggest you look up the word "semantics" though, just because you learned a new word doesn't mean you have to use it all on the first shot ;)

Let's see if you are as good at admitting your mistakes as you say you are:

"Of course the missionaries are Mormon. YOU claimed they were paid employees. That's false. Double sheesh."

Again, this is a Call For Reference - where did I say missionaries "were paid employees."

I'll expect a "double" apology, since you had to "double sheesh" me.

"Well ok, glad to know you're not the author. I'll keep that in mind, as long as you keep in mind I'm not "shifting the goal posts" or whatever. So did you spend time there at the Ranch?"

You were, in fact, shifting the goal posts. I suggest googling the term if you are unfamiliar with it. It is not an insult, merely an observation. Yes, I was at the Utah Boys Ranch for seven months.

"The seminary teachers are NOT employees of the Ranch. You should know that, yet you seem not to. That's bogus, KP."

Really? There were two seminary teachers that worked at the Ranch during my seven months there. I graduated from Seminary from West Ridge Academy. I don't see how you can imply that they are not employees of the Ranch, unless you mean that they get their paycheck directly from the Church Education System. If that is what you mean by employee, that is absolutely true. Then they are employees of the Mormon Church who work at the Utah Boys Ranch. This, HiJolly, is quintessential equivocation. Like I said, you need to take it to a religious apologetic discussion board, not here.

Again, you use a straw man argument:

"You didn't claim that the bishopric was a Church entity (which is true enough), you claimed it was paid for or financed by the Church. This is not true. Anyone who knows anything about Mormons knows that the Bishop and his councelors are not paid by the Church. Nice jab on the "sophistry" thing. I love you, too. :-)"

Also, it's not clear that you understand what the word "sophistry" means.

"Just visited a few times, KP, didn't get the chance to live there. How is it that you know so much that ain't so?"

I more than just visited a few times, I lived there.

"And no retraction."

I've said nothing false that needs retracting. If I do, I will.

"I wasn't aware that the DI dealt in food. I have been there hundreds of times, both as a customer and a volunteer, and never saw any food there. Please tell me more. Really."

Wow. You really are uninformed. You must not live in West Jordan, or Utah at all, if you think that. I drank milk with a "Deseret Industry" label on it everyday for seven months. This is ridiculous.

"My faith is not in the Boy's Ranch. It is in Jesus Christ, and also to a great extent in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. You threaten nothing but the gullibility of the public."

The irony contained on that statement will probably be lost on you, but hopefully others will get it. You mention that your "faith is just fine" twice, even though I never questioned that. That seems a rather odd statement to make out of the blue.

"Let me share some thoughts with you that were recently posted in the West Jordan Yahoo site, RE: this Orato article:"

All those comments are meaningless, HiJolly, without an actual link. What's the matter, afraid we'll read things in the proper context?

"Maybe D. F. needs to talk with you, hey?"

Yes, he certainly does. Of course your post would be moot if the readers got to see those comments in context, you however, the Erin Brockovich of the web, won't supply a link. That's weird, don't ya think?

Re: Trapped In A Mormon Gulag

By Amanda, January 5, 2009 at 16:29

I would like to point out that The Utah Boys Ranch is not owned nor operated by the LDS Church. I do not know the truth of the situation at the ranch, but see no problem with an independent group looking into it, and asking tough questions. If Child abuse is happening it should be shut down. Members of the LDS faith are not perfect, you will find the same kinds of problems inside the LDS church that you find outside. The LDS Church has consistently and loudly spoken out against the use of force in relation to children, and regularly counsels parents against any kind of abuse.

Re: Trapped In A Mormon Gulag

By KP, January 5, 2009 at 18:21

Actually, saying that the LDS church does not own and operate the Utah Boys Ranch IS misleading.

If you took some time to research this issue, you would find that the connection is both undeniable and more than just incidental:

the board of directors is comprised of prominent LDS families - two Utah Mormon politicians, and the director of religion at BYU, for crying out loud!

There are LDS employees on campus, so what do you call that? Four missionaries, two seminary teachers, a bishopric?

The LDS church is the biggest financier of this establishment. 100% of the staff is LDS.

All this, and more information is readily available at the website mormongulag.com

Amanda, I understand the knee-jerk reaction to defend the faith, but your comment comes across more obtuse than anything else.

Re: Trapped In A Mormon Gulag

By CraftyGal1965, January 5, 2009 at 14:12

Wow, that is so shocking! We need to stop this kind of atrocity. I am a former member of Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (the Mormons). I chose to rescind my membership of the church for many reasons:

1) my son absolutely hated going to church, attending Scouts (which he had loved before going to the ward that we transferred to.)
2) the constant pressure of finding a husband. I have since remarried and he has nothing to do woth the Mormon church.
3) trying to force my husband into joining.
4) their stand on homosexuality, look at Proposition 8 that just passed on California.

and many other reasons. Is there anyway for you to get an investigation going on this. This should not have ever been tolerated!

I wish you healing and a better place.

CratyGal

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